Introduction

[Nick Redding] In states like Maryland and those even further south, summer heat can be exhausting and not just for people. This week I sat down with Will Hamilton and Mariah Schwartz all the way from historic Charleston, South Carolina to learn about how preservationists can best protect historic buildings from heat and humidity. Find yourself a cold beverage, sit back, and tune in. This is Preserve Cast.

From Preservation Maryland Studios in the historic podcast district of Baltimore, this is Preserve Cast.

---

[Nick Redding] This is Nick Redding and you’re listening to Preserve Cast. Today we are joined by Will Hamilton and Mariah Schwartz and they are coming to us from historic Charleston, South Carolina and we’re going to be talking all about the work of the Historic Charleston Foundation and how to preserve and protect historic structures in a tropical humid climate down in the Deep South. Will, Mariah, it’s good to have you on Preserve Cast.

[Mariah Schwartz] Thank you. Glad to be here.

[Will Hamilton] Thank you. Appreciate it.

[NR] So we always try and give people an opportunity to tell us about what brought them to preservation because it always seems like it’s an interesting path and it connects us to our guests. So, Will, if you want to take the lead on that and then maybe Mariah can pick up. How did you get involved in all this?

[WH] Similar to other folks, I’m sure. Growing up, my parents would take us to historic sites and places on vacation, kind of trips like that. And in college, I studied history just because I enjoyed it, not because I wanted to be a historian or go to law school or anything like that. Graduated college and didn’t really know what I wanted to do and started searching for graduate programs and came across one that Clemson and the College of Charleston offered as a joint Master’s program in historic preservation. To make a long story short, one thing led to another. I applied, got in, met my previous employer, Richard Marks, who owns and operates Richard Marks Restorations in Charleston. He specializes in restoration of colonial period houses and sites. I worked for him for five or six years during and after graduate school and that’s when in 2011, I saw that the Historic Charleston Foundation had an opening for a property manager. So applied and was lucky enough to get the job and here I am.

[NR] And, Mariah, how about you? You’ve got a bunch of letters after your name here. Why don’t you read off those for everybody? And tell us what they mean and how they relate to preservation?

[MS] All right. I have CXA and Lead AP so I’m a certified commissioning authority and also a Lead accredited professional.

[NR] Awesome.

[MS] Yeah, so for the Lead qualification we do Lead administrative work and consulting for – I’m sure you might be familiar with the USGBC and that’s the United States Green Building Council. Their Lead Certification Program for buildings, the highest performance building rating system. So we can help buildings whether they’re existing or new. Some historic to become Lead certified. And then the Commissioning Authority Certification, basically that qualifies me as a professional to go into buildings and help the energy-using system. So the HBAC, lighting, domestic hot water, systems like that get started that we make sure they’re designed, operated, and functioning as intended for the owner.

[NR] So how’d you get into all of this? [laughter]

[MS] So, sort of like Will, I did a lot of going to historic sites, and national parks, and state parks as a child and on vacation with my family. So I think that sort of instilled the interest in me from an early age, whether I knew it or not. I went to college at the University of Florida and graduated in their building construction program. So right after my undergraduate degree, I was employed with a large construction company down in Florida doing healthcare construction. After about four years or so I thought to myself, “This isn’t really what I want to do for the rest of my life.” And I always, kind of, was drawn to the historic, older buildings and construction and just as an interest in life and just walking around cities and things and appreciating older cities and historic buildings. So I started thinking, “Well, what could I do as a graduate degree?” And then I discovered that there were Master’s programs in historic preservation all over the country. And I visited a few and actually got accepted to the same program that Will was accepted into, the Clemson University and College of Charleston joint program. And I was a few years after you, Will, so we weren’t there at the same time. And then after I graduated from that program, I got a job with Whole Building Systems, which is where I still work. How I got my job was my thesis work during the program, and my thesis was about the Aiken-Rhett House, which we’re going to talk about today. And it was basically – it’s got a long title, so I won’t read it all [laughter] out to you – finding the most appropriate climate control system for the Aiken-Rhett House.

[NR] Well, I’m sort of showing my true colors here. That really speaks to me, which is a funny thing to say. Because I previously, prior to being the executive director here at Preservation Maryland, ran a historic house museum, a big plantation home in Virginia’s Shenandoah Valley and we grappled with the issues associated with how to deliver energy efficiency and heating and cooling to that massive house. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on your thesis at the time, which, obviously, I’m a true-blue preservationist in that sense that I’d want to read a thesis on how to deliver HVAC to a historic home. [laughter] But it sounds interesting, and so that’s really one of the reasons we wanted to get you both on here is to talk through that. Because it’s a challenge not only for people who manage historic properties that are open to the public but even just people who have historic homes of their own.

So, Will, you’re the property manager for Historic Charleston Foundation. Why don’t you tell people who aren’t familiar with it, what is the Historic Charleston Foundation? What’s your mission? What do you guys do? And then, I guess, as a follow-up to that, what do you particularly do for them?

[WH] Sure, yeah. Historic Charleston Foundation is a non-profit that was established in 1947 to preserve and protect the historical, architectural, and material culture that make up Charleston’s rich and irreplaceable heritage. And currently, we’re sort of working on that because we’ve gotten into some environmental conservation issues and planning efforts, so that will probably be tweaked here in the next year or so. But that’s basically it, currently. And as far as what I do with the foundation as the property manager I do lots of different things. But one of my main responsibilities is to manage and coordinate maintenance and repairs to three historic buildings, two of which are house museums: the Aiken-Rhett House, obviously, and then we operate the Nathaniel Russel House as well, and our office on East Bay Street is technically considered a historic house as well, so…

[NR] Yeah. You’ve got pretty sweet digs right there. I have walked by that house before and have been jealous of the people who get to work in there.

[WH] we’re fortunate to have that space. We’re on the third floor. And our office up there looks south and east over the harbor, so we’re lucky to be up there.

[NR] That’s quality row right there, certainly. So that’s a big job I would take it. I mean, you must be doing tens of thousands of dollars worth of projects every year on these buildings just to kind of keep them in good shape. Is that a fair assumption?

[WH] Yeah. You’re exactly right. I tell people that it’s job security for me. Just with Aiken-Rhett [laughter],. We do a ton of work, and it involves everybody. I mean, it’s not just our preservation department. We’ve got a philanthropy department, finance, obviously, marketing to help us with it. And we’re fortunate, again, to have a strong donor base, so we get a lot of money donated for specific projects. We work with various groups to get grants to do stuff. And then I have to establish a budget, so I go out and will get bids from architects and contractors and craftsmen that are specialists with particular things like masonry repair and carpentry and things like that. So, yeah, I mean, it’s a full-time job plus more at the Aiken-Rhett.

[NR] Now, Mariah, I don’t know if you’d be the one to toss this question to or maybe Will. But does one of you want to give us sort of the background on Aiken-Rhett House. I mean, sort of the details and the specifics? What the history of the structure is and what it looks like today?

[WH] Sure, yeah. I can try, and then Mariah will jump in.

[MS] I’ll interject if I need to here.

[WH] Aiken-Rhett was built circa 1820. It stayed in the family for, I think, over 140 years. And the Charleston Museum purchased the property, I should say, in 1975. And then in 1995, we acquired it. We purchased the property to turn it into a house museum. Since 1995, have practiced sort of a preserved-as-found preservation philosophy there where we implement – currently, I mean now, we’re talking new-age technology and that sort of thing to keep it stabilized and in kind of a conserved state. So we like to think of it as kind of a lab of sorts to use new methods and technologies.

[NR] So let me ask you this, I mean, you’re describing obviously not restoration and perhaps not even rehabilitation, but just sort of keeping it as it was found. For those who are familiar with Drayton Hall, is it kind of on that level or is it… I mean, if you were to walk into the structure what would you see? Would you see a furnished space, or what could visitors expect to see?

[WH] It is comparable to Drayton Hall. I don’t think Drayton Hall has – it’s not furnished, but we do have period furniture that has been installed inside the house and in outbuildings as well.

[MS] I’ll just say to add a little bit more to the description of the house, it’s a Charleston double house that was finished in 1820 as Will said. But over time, the family added on to the house because they were wealthy plantation owners. So it’s a three-story house over a full basement, and then they added an east wing that had a very elaborate dining room in it. And then they also added an art gallery in 1858 to house the family’s art collection because they traveled the world and collected pieces from all over. When you come across this house, it’s a very impressive house. The outside of it is this yellow-ochre color, and it’s got bright green, hunter green, shutters which I guess is Charleston green. Right, Will?

[WH] Yeah. Sort of. [laughter].

[MS] And it’s got these huge piazzas that wrap around the front of the house, so it’s very magnificent and impressive when you come across it when you’re walking down the street.

[WH] Yeah. It encompasses the entire block that it sits on. There are two impressive outbuildings on the north side of the property. One of them is included in the tour when guests come, but the other one is a stable that’s – I guess, the first floor of it, the first floor of the stable, is part of the tour but the second floor is not of the stable.

[NR] So this is a – I mean, you’re painting a picture of a pretty significant home. This is no normal historic structure. I mean, this is pretty massive. Most structures we run across here don’t have art galleries in them, so that’s pretty impressive. So what are the… You know, maybe this is a question to throw at Mariah first. What are the HVAC challenges here? I mean, to the person who wrote their thesis on this house and the challenges associated with it, I mean, how do you heat and cool something like this?

[MS] That is a very good question. And, first, to kind of hint on what Will was saying, their preservation philosophy is, in fact, preservation and sort of preserve-as-found and conservation. Only go in and repair and patch when they need to, when something’s detrimental like wallpaper falling off the wall or a piece of plaster falling down, things for the safety and health of the building occupants and visitors and things like that. So, currently, there’s only two areas of the house that are heated and cooled. That being when you first go into the house, the bottom floor, the basement, most of it is heated and cooled where you have the gift shop, where you buy your tickets for the tours, there’s an office space, and the docent locker room [laughter], we’ll say. The docent break room, I guess, is a better term for it. And, then, the art gallery it’s heated and cooled and it’s also dehumidified.

But the rest of the house isn’t. There’s only a heating system, and it’s just a mild heating system that they use in the winter and in the swing months when you might have cool nights but then it might warm up really quickly during the day. And that heating system is used to keep the interior surfaces of the house at a warmer temperature. Say sixty to sixty-eight degrees is what they run the heating system at, just so that you don’t get condensation on the surfaces inside the house – and we can talk about that a little bit more later. I might be getting ahead of myself there. But the difficulty is, with this house that is in the state it is in, historic buildings have much looser building envelopes than modern buildings do. So they have a lot more air infiltration and moisture migration into the building than modern buildings do. And, also, since the Aiken-Rhett House is in this preservation state, the building envelope is not in, let me say, its best condition. You know, there’s holes in the plaster walls and things like that. So much more areas in rooms for moisture and air to migrate into the house.

[NR] Interesting. Not only are we dealing with a pretty significant structure, but we’re also dealing with a structure that’s in maybe even different shape than what you normally would see when you go to commission a system for a place like this.

[MS] And how do you the control the interior environment in a building like this that has the envelope that is in the state it’s in? So that’s a big question. But then, also, if you do want to control the interior environment, what are the best conditions in regards to temperature, relative humidity levels, air quality, things like that that do a good job in preserving the building and its finishes? But are also somewhat comfortable for the building occupants?

[NR] Yeah. I think that those are a series of good questions to kind of leave hanging there because I think now is a good time for us to take a quick break. And then, when we come back, perhaps, we can have you and Will take us through how you answered those questions, and what kind of system you came up with, and maybe give some insight to folks who are dealing with similar challenges in their historic property. So we’ll cover that when we come back after this quick break here on PreserveCast.

And now it’s time for a Preservation Explanation

[Stephen Israel] You might have heard Nick ask if Will or Mariah could compare the Aiken-Rhett House to another North Carolina site, Drayton Hall. Located along the Ashley River as it flows through into Charleston, South Carolina, Drayton Hall is a National Historic Landmark, a museum that is open to the public, and one of the oldest buildings still standing in South Carolina. In 1738, John Drayton, the child of wealthy plantation owners Thomas and Ann Drayton, purchased the land that would become Drayton Hall. His planned structure was just barely down river from his family’s estate, now also open to the public as the Magnolia Plantation and Gardens. But as the third son of one of the burgeoning colonies premier families, John suspected he might just not be in a position to inherit the family home and felt the need to make his own mark on the world, and he certainly did his part to make his new home a showpiece.

Drayton Hall is the first known example of Palladian architecture in the United States. This style of architecture is based off of the work of sixteenth-century, Venetian, architect Andrea Palladio. Influenced by Roman temples, key elements of Palladio’s style include a focus on the front facade of the building and always keeping the setting, or surrounding landscape of the building, in mind during construction. Palladian architecture was at the height of fashion in eighteenth-century Britain, and it was John Drayton’s intention to build his plantation home in this style to make an impact with the local South Carolina elite. One contemporary South Carolina Gazette writer described the newly-constructed Drayton Hall as a palace and gardens. And there’s still some today who consider Drayton Hall an example of an American palace. So I think it worked out pretty well for John.

At its height, Drayton Hall was the centerpiece of a plantation empire that managed thousands of slaves and 78,000 acres of land. Today, the main building survives relatively unaltered having stayed under the care of the Drayton family until it was purchased by the National Trust in 1972. It serves as a museum that acknowledges both the physical beauty of the building as it stands today and the historical reality of the countless African people whose enslavement supported the extravagant lifestyle of John Drayton and his immediate descendants. Of course, there’s more out there to learn about the different Drayton family plantations and the depth of the human experience that is memorialized at Drayton Hall. But I don’t want to keep you from PreserveCast.

---

Do you have questions? We may have answers. If at any point during this podcast you’ve thought of a question that you have for us or maybe one of our guests, we’d love to hear about it. You can send an email to podcast@presmd.org and we’ll try and answer it right here on the air on the next episode of PreserveCast.

---

[NR] This is Nick Redding. You’re listening to PreserveCast. I’m joined by Will Hamilton and Mariah Schwartz, who are talking to me from historic Charleston, South Carolina. And we’re talking about the Aiken-Rhett House, and the myriad of challenges associated with heating, and cooling, and caring for a historic house that is being “preserved in place.” And before we took our break, Mariah had posed a series of questions. And Mariah, maybe you could restate those as far as the challenges associated with doing all of this. And then, perhaps, you and Will can take us through what kind of solution you were able to craft for Aiken-Rhett.

[MS] So the question is when you have a building that’s in the state that Aiken-Rhett House is in, a historic house museum that’s being preserved in place, and the building envelope is in the condition it is in, what sort of interior environment do you want to create that is best for the building itself and all of its historic finishes, the collections that are being stored in it, and then also, can you do anything to satisfy the occupant comfort, the thermal comfort, of the people that are in the building? And finding a happy medium that satisfies all three is really difficult sometimes, especially in historic buildings [laughter].

[NR] So, Will, do you want to take a stab at giving us a snapshot of what ended up happening and how you were able to accomplish this?

[WH] Well, we actually hired a consulting firm to help us with this. And they gave us several recommendations as far as the best way to try and control the relative humidity and temperature in the house. One way that they recommended doing this is to come up with a… It’s basically a spreadsheet that we have that includes various times of the year – days, months, that sort of thing. And there’s a schedule as to when we should open and close windows in the house.

[NR] So in a sense, you are historically handling heating and cooling by relying on something as technologically advanced as opening and closing a window?

[MS] Right. Yeah. And I mean especially – I’m just thinking about in the summertime when the relative humidity goes up and the temperature goes way up, we’ve we’ve got fans that we place in various areas to help move air throughout the building. I guess you’d call them passive methods to help cool and heat the house in the warmer and cooler months.

[MS] I was just going to add to that, that I completed my thesis work before HCF hired the consultants. That grant was sort of in the works as I was doing my thesis work. But I went into my thesis thinking, “Oh, I’m going to come up with this fancy HVAC system with all this new technology. And it’s going to solve their problem and it’s going to be great.” But after I did all my investigations, and my research, and my case studies, and investigated all the passive heating and cooling methods in the house as well as the mechanical ones, I sort of came up with the same conclusion that the consultants did, that it’s better to implement the passive methods of climate control in this historic house. And that that’s going to end up being the most cost effective but efficient method of doing so. And it’s also going to be what’s best for the building and its finishes.

[NR] And does that have a lot to do with the fact that the building envelope is so leaky? That really, whatever you’re trying to do, you’re always going to be fighting against that so you might as well kind of work with that through the passive method?

[MS] Exactly. So with a leaky building envelope, that’s really going to be your best option. Because if you were going to go in and say, “I want to put in a chill water and heating hot water cooling system, several air handler units in the house,” you would have to do so much improvements to the building envelope that you’re looking at a multi-million dollar project. It’s just not going to be cost effective. To get that building envelope up to where it needs to be, to be able to maintain those temperature and humidity set points in the house, it would be very intrusive and very cost prohibitive to do that.

[NR] So, Will, has this worked? How long has it been implemented, and have you still been dealing with humidity challenges and all those sorts of things? Or is sort of the passive method working for you guys?

[WH] Yeah. Oh yeah, it’s definitely working. We use data loggers throughout the house to gauge relative humidity and temperature levels year-round. Once a month, I download these things and they get uploaded onto my desktop computer. So I’ve got a chart each month that shows me where these levels are, and when they get out of whack, we can go back and look at our shutter and window schedule and tweak that if we need to. But I haven’t seen any, I guess, you could call it a negative fluctuation since we implemented this. Everything has been good and it has worked out for us well, so far.

[NR] Now, what about guests? In the interest of full disclosure, I’m a Yankee. I was born in Buffalo, New York and grew up there. So I kind of chuckled to myself when you were saying you needed a mild heating system in the winter. I thought, “Everybody needs a mild heating system in Charleston, South Carolina [laughter].” It’s not just Aiken-Rhett. But when you visit Charleston, particularly if you’re there during one of the oppressive months of July or August or something like that, I mean, it’s hot! So when people come into the house, are they sort of taken? Are they thinking, “What? There’s no air conditioning in this place?” Do you get complaints? Or do people kind of accept it?

[WH] Well, they accept it. But I’ll just say that we have a sign that we put out in the summertime at the front entrance that clearly says, “This house is unconditioned and you’re going to get the authentic experience” [laughter]

[NR] And they don’t have to pay extra for that authentic experience, though. Right? That comes with the tour.

[MS] There you go. Yeah. They’re made aware of that at the ticket counter, as well. So we might hear some folks say, “Yeah, it’s hot.” But there’s not a whole lot of complaining so to speak.

[NR] And just to give us some background – and I know Mariah was going to jump in – but just to give us some background, how many people are coming through Aiken-Rhett on a yearly basis?

[WH] Oh, gosh, thousands. I’m not sure of the exact number. I’d have to get with our house manager. But there’s a lot of people that come through that space.

[NR] Pretty significant.

[WH] Right.

[NR] And Mariah, you were going to jump in, I think, and offer something.

[MS] I was just going to say one of two things. One, you all do have a safety check in place. So if the heat index is above a certain amount, you close the house down, right?

[NR] Right. Right. And that heat index, it’s 100 – I guess you’d say 100 degrees. But the heat index is relative humidity combined with the outside temperature to get that, so…

[MS] Yep. And then also just sort of on what visitors experience when they come into the house. I know from being there and doing my thesis work and then turning at HCF. But a lot of people come into the house and think, “Oh, no. This poor house. It’s in such decay and they must not be able to take care of it,” things like that. But they don’t understand that that’s how the house is being interpreted. So it’s very interesting to get people’s different perceptions once they go there. It’s an unconditioned, unrestored historic house museum. Not typically what people expect when they go visit historic house museums. But I find that once people go there versus a restored house museum like with Nathaniel Russell House, which you all own, a lot of people like Aiken-Rhett House better.

[NR] Yeah. And you hear that about Drayton as well, which is a similar experience down there. Mariah, just curious kind of following up on this thread and this thought here. This works, obviously, in a situation like Aiken-Rhett where people are expecting or at least they’re willing to accept the historic experience and kind of recognize the value perhaps of these passive technologies being used to heat and cool the space. Are you seeing this, though, is there an embracing of passive technologies outside of a house museum setting like this? Do you try and employ this elsewhere in your work, whether it be with other historic buildings, or just non-historic new build sort of things? Are we seeing more passive? Is there some embracing of that?

[MS] I think there is an embracing of that with people becoming more and more concerned with energy efficiency and wanting to get energy costs down. I think it might be more acceptable in the historic building environment, in historic house museums. Now, I will say there is a church in Charleston that we did a project for. And it had never been air conditioned before, but it had a radiator heating system. And they wanted to install an air conditioning system so that they could have events and services there in the summer. And we convinced them to “let’s not put a full-blown full-capacity cooling system in. Let’s just put one in that can temper the air down to say 80 degrees or 78 degrees so that it’s tolerable for the people to be in the building, but it’s also good for the building and the finishes itself because it’s keeping the interior environment more closely in line with the exterior environment.” Once we explained the significance of that and what it would do to help protect their building, the church was on board.

Now modern building and of this situations, I think the creature comforts and human nature, it’s kind of harder to change occupant behavior. We try, even in modern buildings, to get people to bump up their thermostat set points to say even 75 or 76 in the summer. Bump it down in the wintertime to 68 or even lower if you can and really try to save on energy costs and as well as keeping the building more aligned with what’s going on outside to minimize that moisture migration and air infiltration into the building.

[NR] Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, though. I mean, because even in modern office buildings, if you don’t have working windows that you lose the ability to even engage in any of those passive activities. So maybe there’s something to be learned from our historic architecture that we could re-embrace. And I think that with the Lead AP after your name, we’re probably singing from the same songbook here, but I think there’s some value to that as well.

[MS] I agree, and I am starting to see more and more operable windows being installed in modern buildings so that people do have some control over their little local micro-climate. Something about being able to breathe fresh air and get that sunlight in is key.

[NR] Yeah, it’s a novel idea. I’m glad to see it’s being embraced. [laughter] So, Will, we don’t let anyone leave PreserveCast – and Mariah’s going to be on the same hook here but we’re coming to you first – without telling us about their favorite historic property, historic building. I know you’ll be in a tough place, because you’re representing the Historic Charleston Foundation, and you’ll be inclined to give us one of their properties, perhaps, but if you had a favorite historic property, what would it be?

[WH] Well, can I say two properties?

[NR] I suppose. We normally try and make this pretty hard and fast as a one. We try and make people make that difficult choice, but if you can only do two, we’ll take two.

[WH] Well, quickly, so, with the foundation, I like the Aiken-Rhett House, I think it’s a really neat space, and I’ve enjoyed working there. And, number two would be the Beaufort South Carolina Arsenal, which I had the opportunity to work on back when I was working with Richard Marks Restorations to do some structural masonry work and window repairs and things like that. That was a really neat space to be in at the time, as well.

[NR] Very cool. And, Mariah, how about yourself?

[MS] I’m going to have to be the cliche and say the Aiken-Rhett House just because of how much time I spent there and how much work went in.

[NR] You know, not to be a stickler but I’m not sure – and I’m looking over at our producer here. I’m not sure we’ve ever been in this place before, but I’m not sure we can accept the same house.

[MS] What?

[NR] Yeah, I don’t think…. I’m looking over at the judges, and they’re saying “No.” So we’re going to…

[crosstalk]

[MS] No? It’s not allowed?

[NR] I’m sorry, you can’t go with the prior one. You’ve got to have another one.

[MS] Alright, well then, my big cliche again, and I’d say the Nathaniel Russell House. But that is because my company did the project to replace the HVAC system there about three years ago, and I have crawled all over that building and underneath that house. So I really appreciate that house for complete opposite reasons, I guess, from the Aiken-Rhett House. That is a fully restored, historic house museum that is fully heated and cooled, so very different.

[NR] Well, we will definitely accept that answer because anyone who crawls around an historic building, that’s a good way to fall in love with the building by getting to know its bones.

[WH] Oh yeah.

[NR] So, if people wanted to get in touch with either of you, Mariah, maybe you can give us your contact information, and how people could reach you at your firm? And then, Will, the same for Historic Charleston Foundation?

[MS] Okay. Well, I work for Whole Building Systems and we have a website which is WholeBuildingSystems.com, and that’s W-H-O-L-E BuildingSystems.com, not H-O-L-E. And you can reach me at my email address, it’s MSchwartz, M-S-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z mschwartz@wholebuildingsystems.com, and then we also have a Facebook page that you can look us up on.

[NR] Awesome, and Will, how about you?

[WH] I’m all over the place, but the easiest way is to call the office directly, Historic Charleston Foundation’s office at 40 East Bay Street. That number is 843-723-1623, and someone will definitely be able to get in touch with me.

[NR] And, I presume you also have a website?

[WH] Yep, HistoricCharlestonFoundation.org.

[NR] Yeah, and I know you’re on Facebook, too, because I’m a fan of you guys there. So, you guys are easy to find, you’re all over the place.

[WH] Facebook, Instagram, all that good stuff.

[NR] Good. Well, we really appreciate you guys both coming on the show today. I think it’s been really interesting to see what’s working in terms of how to heat and cool and care for these historic buildings and take them into their third and fourth centuries. We appreciate you coming on and also appreciate all the good work you’re doing on behalf of historic preservation. And, next time we’re down in Charleston, we’ll be sure to stop in and say hello.

[MS] Please do, thank you.

[WH] Yeah, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Credits

You don’t need to open a history book to find us and available online from iTunes and their Google Play Store as well as our website: PresMD.org. This is PreserveCast.

This podcast was developed under a grant from the National Center for Preservation Technology and Training, a unit of the National Park Service. Its contents are the sole responsibility of Preservation Maryland and the Maryland Milestones Heritage Area and do not necessarily represent the official position or policies of the National Park Service or the National Center for Preservation Technology and Training.

This week’s episode was produced and engineered by Ben and Stephen Israel. Our executive producer is Aaron Marcavitch. Our theme music is performed by the band Pretty Gritty. You can learn more about them at their website: PrettyGrittyMusic.com, on Facebook, or on Twitter @PG_PrettyGritty.

To learn about Preservation Maryland or this week’s guests, visit: PreservationMaryland.org. While there, you can check out our blog and learn about what’s current in historic preservation. We’re also on Facebook, Instagram, Flickr, and Twitter @PreservationMD. And of course, a very special thank you to our listeners. Keep preserving!